Problems, changes and comments on HDTP

Morpheus · Post by **Morpheus** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:42 am

I have a few queries about HDTP I need to resolve:

Gunther hermann looks great!

New crowbar looks weird... Like better shape, but using it.. looks all wrist and no arm movement really...

HDTP pistol is cool

I like the new JC, but the model is starting to look different than original. Its supposed to look better than original, not trail away. (Sorry for sounding wrong or bad. I know its hard work and I enjoy what your doing) Same with Bob page, looks a bit different than original, but still good.

Whats GEP gun going to look like? (looked weird originally)

How will Liberty Island Statue be looking like? Do we have a plan?

Prefer DX2 Helicopter... maybe replace DX helicopter with DX2 looking one...

one suggweestion: Use DX2 Gray modelbasis for DX one.. Looks way better.

One last thought about NPC: Tracer Tong looked slight different in DX2 thn in DX1. Maybe keep it more original looking?

Finally, HDTP is good. Kees getting better with time.

Post by **DDL** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:56 am

We're really not using IW as a basis for any of our models: this is pretty much a DX-only influenced enhancement mod.

Don't think we're planning on bothering with the statue currently: sure it's iconic, but in comparison to the troopers and co, it gets comparatively little 'air-time'.

As for the characters, as has been said before: we can't please everyone all the time (plus it's difficult to assess how popular a given character is, since people usually only actually POST when they have a complaint).

We are going to include the option to NOT use the new characters, since there's clearly such controversy. So it all works out, more or less.

ZylonBane · Post by **ZylonBane** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:06 pm

The "problem" with good artists is that they tend to hate copying other people's work... which unfortunately works against projects like this. I think a lot of people would be happy if you could just get someone to upgrade the existing models with high-res remakes of the existing textures. It'd be worth it just to get rid of all the pixelated lapels!

Have you tried getting JohnP on board with this? He does a fantastic job at exactly this sort of thing.

Post by **metche_steele** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:21 pm

ZylonBane wrote:The "problem" with good artists is that they tend to hate copying other people's work... which unfortunately works against projects like this. I think a lot of people would be happy if you could just get someone to upgrade the existing models with high-res remakes of the existing textures. It'd be worth it just to get rid of all the pixelated lapels!

Have you tried getting JohnP on board with this? He does a fantastic job at exactly this sort of thing.

Dear God, Man - what on EARTH do you think weve been doing all this time??

You can't carbon copy the original textures and put them onto a higher poly model - its physically impossible!

edit: John P is great - we tried to get him on board but hes busy with personal projects. Why does JohnP's IW work so well? Because the original textures in IW werent a low a res/crappy tiny quality as the original.

HDTP -> Takes 32x32 and upgrades to 512x512 (worst case)
JohnP -> Takes 128x128 and upgrades to 512? Or something in the region.

Either case my point is that the IW textures were no where near as crap as the original DX1 ones.

Post by **DDL** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:41 pm

Plus JohnP is retexturing, not remodelling THEN retexturing.

Lots of HDTP stuff is completely differently UV mapped, which makes staying 100% faithful to the original texture a bit tricky.

Post by **Trestkon** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:04 pm

It should also be noted that when JohnP was creating his IW textures, he received as much, if not *more* flack than the HDTP crew as received regarding the appearance of his upgrades.

ZylonBane · Post by **ZylonBane** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:04 pm

metche_steele wrote:You can't carbon copy the original textures and put them onto a higher poly model - its physically impossible!

That's the opposite of what I suggested. The original AI models really aren't that bad, except for the somewhat blocky hands. Isn't it possible to remap new, higher-res textures onto the original AI models? Sure it wouldn't be as good as making new models, but considering how controversial and time-consuming new models are, it might be the best solution for HDTP.

Post by **metche_steele** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:06 pm

ZylonBane wrote:
metche_steele wrote:You can't carbon copy the original textures and put them onto a higher poly model - its physically impossible!
That's the opposite of what I suggested. The original AI models really aren't that bad, except for the somewhat blocky hands. Isn't it possible to remap new, higher-res textures onto the original AI models? Sure it wouldn't be as good as making new models, but considering how controversial and time-consuming new models are, it might be the best solution for HDTP.

The Flip-side? No ....

Imagine putting a photograph of a face onto a model of a face that was shaped similar to a shapeless block - that would be the result.

Post by **DDL** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:08 pm

Not really: the old DX models work precisely BECAUSE they're fairly bad models and fairly bad textures. The combined effect is enough to let your brain 'fill in the gaps', so to speak.

Putting a spiffy high res texture on an old DX character mesh simply highlights quite what a low-poly mesh it really is.

Post by **metche_steele** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:14 pm

DDL wrote:Not really: the old DX models work precisely BECAUSE they're fairly bad models and fairly bad textures. The combined effect is enough to let your brain 'fill in the gaps', so to speak.

Putting a spiffy high res texture on an old DX character mesh simply highlights quite what a low-poly mesh it really is.

Your words are as eloquent as they are truth!

ZylonBane · Post by **ZylonBane** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:35 pm

Well then, let's test that theory. How about upgrading the MiB textures? Between their plain black suit and bland face, it shouldn't take a talented artist more than a couple days to do a respectable job.

Post by **DDL** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:40 pm

By all means, ZB: go ahead! All our texture artists are horribly busy right now, but if you want to have a go, that'd be awesome.

Post by **metche_steele** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:47 pm

ZylonBane wrote:Well then, let's test that theory. How about upgrading the MiB textures? Between their plain black suit and bland face, it shouldn't take a talented artist more than a couple days to do a respectable job.

Respectable? Perhaps... Exceptional - maybe not.

All the same - this isnt an argument man it's just to say that although some ppl may find it acceptable to work in that manner - its not how we do it. We rebuild from scratch. If you dont like it then you'll have the option to not install the character pack in our later installer versions. Your choice man

ZylonBane · Post by **ZylonBane** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:01 pm

DDL wrote:By all means, ZB: go ahead!

I said a talented artist.

Jetsetlemming · Post by **Jetsetlemming** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 7:36 pm

Yep, the original DX models are fairly crap, even for their time. Look at some other games that came out in the same year: RtcW, Clive Barker's Undying... Hell, even look at games that came out earlier. The original Unreal had better looking character models. Alien vs. Predator originated in what, 1997? It's character models look on par with DX's. Because of how complicated DX's levels and backround data management was, how many different offscreen things it kept track of all at once, they HAD to cut corners on the character detail, and the way they designed the textures around them supplimented the low poly models to look believable, to fit in in the game enviroment. Changing the models without the textures would be impossible, the textures wouldn't fit, and changing the textures without changing the models would just accent the poor model quality more and make it even more obvious.