Indeed it is. I apologize, I had only intended initially to challenge CyberP's claim that Deus Ex didn't sell as well as Half Life/Doom because of "shit" marketing, however the discussion got sidetracked to other things like NMS marketing, cigarettes, GMDX's popularity and more. As I said, the debate has run its course.Mortecha wrote:
This seems like a pointless argument/crusade. Don't you have more important things to do DevAnj?
Is marketing truly everything?
Moderators: Master_Kale, TNM Team
Re: Is marketing truly everything?
Re: Is marketing truly everything?
Marketing does not matter, but hype does
Well that's not true, people can't buy your game if they don't know it exists. However, these days, with all social media and reddit and such, I would guess word of mouth is more powerful than ever. Probably helps a lot if the game looks good in screenshots though.
Marketing is a very good way to generate hype though, and hype seems able to turn even the most mediocre of turds (no mans sky) into massive financial successes.
I think your target audience also matters. Hardcore/hobby gamers seem more inclined to actively search for good games, whereas normal people don't want to spend that time and effort.
I may be talking completely out of my ass though, I've come to be divorced from the general gaming community since I get pretty much all my information from the codex and RPS headlines these days....
Well that's not true, people can't buy your game if they don't know it exists. However, these days, with all social media and reddit and such, I would guess word of mouth is more powerful than ever. Probably helps a lot if the game looks good in screenshots though.
Marketing is a very good way to generate hype though, and hype seems able to turn even the most mediocre of turds (no mans sky) into massive financial successes.
I wonder if this isn't because the subgenre that shadow tactics is (commandos clone) has been pretty much unfilled for a very long time, whereas the dwarves is "just" a real time fantasy rpg.On a side note, for a very recent example of how marketing doesn't always overshadow game quality, the RPG The Dwarves and the Commandos-with-ninjas RTS Shadow Tactics released very nearly simultaneously last week. The Dwarves had a ton of PR and marketing, and Shadow Tactics had basically none. The Dwarves' Metacritic rating is 68, and Shadow Tactics is 83, and the former has sold very poorly so far while the latter has sold really well.
I think your target audience also matters. Hardcore/hobby gamers seem more inclined to actively search for good games, whereas normal people don't want to spend that time and effort.
I may be talking completely out of my ass though, I've come to be divorced from the general gaming community since I get pretty much all my information from the codex and RPS headlines these days....
"Delays are temporary; mediocrity is forever."
odio ergo sum
odio ergo sum
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Re: Is marketing truly everything?
Hype is mostly a byproduct of good marketing. A good marketing campaign seeks to stimulate hype, or fabricate it to begin with. Even if this is not one of its goals, there can't be hype without no marketing, unless again you get really lucky.
Re: Is marketing truly everything?
And before you say "but if a big YouTuber takes a liking to your game...". Yes, but you'd be shocked how many YouTubers demand payment to feature a game. Or maybe you wouldn't, Jaedar, since you're part of RPG Codex and you guys are all cynical assholes - but in this case, you happen to be correct
It's relatively easy to be an indie RPG developer compared to, say, making action-stealth games (*cough*) without a huge publisher backing you, or even just making an indie platformer that is bound to disappear in the vast sea of indie platformers released every year.
Sounds about right.Jaedar wrote:I wonder if this isn't because the subgenre that shadow tactics is (commandos clone) has been pretty much unfilled for a very long time, whereas the dwarves is "just" a real time fantasy rpg.
I think your target audience also matters. Hardcore/hobby gamers seem more inclined to actively search for good games, whereas normal people don't want to spend that time and effort.
It's relatively easy to be an indie RPG developer compared to, say, making action-stealth games (*cough*) without a huge publisher backing you, or even just making an indie platformer that is bound to disappear in the vast sea of indie platformers released every year.
Jonas Wæver
Chief Poking Manager of TNM
I've made some videogames:
Expeditions: Rome
Expeditions: Viking
Expeditions: Conquistador
Clandestine
Chief Poking Manager of TNM
I've made some videogames:
Expeditions: Rome
Expeditions: Viking
Expeditions: Conquistador
Clandestine
Re: Is marketing truly everything?
Well now that you say it, it seems completely obvious.Jonas wrote: Yes, but you'd be shocked how many YouTubers demand payment to feature a game. Or maybe you wouldn't, Jaedar, since you're part of RPG Codex and you guys are all cynical assholes - but in this case, you happen to be correct
Only youtuber I care about is superbunnyhop. He doesn't seem like the type to demand payment, and I hope you can't tell me I'm wrong
I think there are technical issues that also crop up here. There is a bigger requirement on good graphics/physics/etc in some genres than others. Action games (and shooters in particular) don't seem to work very well outside of AAA due to this. And then you have platformers, where AAA don't tread.Jonas wrote: It's relatively easy to be an indie RPG developer compared to, say, making action-stealth games (*cough*) without a huge publisher backing you, or even just making an indie platformer that is bound to disappear in the vast sea of indie platformers released every year.
RPGs are actually in a very good place right now. There's room for AAA and indie, and there's quite a few good games being made (on both sides of the spectrum), even if the promised kickstarters didn't turn out to be excellent.
Hype is the primary product of good marketing. No point being informative if you can sell a dream, unconstrained by reality.Cybernetic pig wrote:Hype is mostly a byproduct of good marketing. A good marketing campaign seeks to stimulate hype, or fabricate it to begin with. Even if this is not one of its goals, there can't be hype without no marketing, unless again you get really lucky.
"Delays are temporary; mediocrity is forever."
odio ergo sum
odio ergo sum
Re: Is marketing truly everything?
I enjoy Superbunnyhop's videos as well. I am not aware whether or not he demands or accepts payment, but I agree he doesn't seem like the type.Jaedar wrote:Only youtuber I care about is superbunnyhop. He doesn't seem like the type to demand payment, and I hope you can't tell me I'm wrong
Agreed.RPGs are actually in a very good place right now. There's room for AAA and indie, and there's quite a few good games being made (on both sides of the spectrum), even if the promised kickstarters didn't turn out to be excellent.
Jonas Wæver
Chief Poking Manager of TNM
I've made some videogames:
Expeditions: Rome
Expeditions: Viking
Expeditions: Conquistador
Clandestine
Chief Poking Manager of TNM
I've made some videogames:
Expeditions: Rome
Expeditions: Viking
Expeditions: Conquistador
Clandestine